Sharing the Gospel of Jesus in a bar. yeah. a bar (pt7)

by Craig on July 19, 2012

So this guy said God in Judges 1:19 was afraid of chariots...source

“God supposedly creates a universe but is scared of  !@#$% iron chariots.”

This is the latest point of a God debate…part 7 of Sharing the Gospel of Jesus in a sports bar…it all began here. But, a word of caution, the early conversation is not a place for the timid. ¯\(°_o)/¯

Chris, the antagonist atheist, proudly presented his proof of the nonsense of God and the Bible. But to be honest, I’d have chosen a much stronger case. All “proofs” that God is not God are flawed. Every. One.

But this one. Really?

I might have chosen…

Why does God require praise? Why does he require our love – does he need it? And if he needs it, doesn’t that make him imperfect? And is an imperfect God, God at all?


How could Jesus be God, and yet pray to God in the Garden?


If we’re saved by hearing the Gospel what about all those who never get the chance to hear?


Expelled from Eden by John Martin 1860

Why, for the sake of Adam and Eve’s mistake are we all punished?

These are things I wrestled with, and found answers for. But this verse? This one was easy.

we looked up the verse in question, Judges 1:19.

Oh, but I forgot, before presenting my audience of 13 with the verse, one of the boys, Mark, shared this.
“The book says all kinds of crazy !@#$%&. What where they smoking when they wrote that?”

Always expect resistance I guess.

The verse:

“The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots.”

And suddenly there was a chance for a little monologue with not a soul interrupting, so I took it, saying:

God is always with us. He was with the Israelites. But they weren’t always with him. I mess up. They messed up. That’s the whole point of the gospel. We’re little mess up factories.

God’s always with me. I’m not always with him. When I am with him I have strength, and wisdom, and courage much more than my own. When I’m not, I have what I have – not always strong, or wise, or brave.

These verses, you guys, are like a recap of the battles of this war. Chariots were like the tanks of that day…deadly effective on the flat ground, pretty useless in the mountains. They took possession of the places without the tanks. The tanks presented, for a while, the reason for not winning the battle of the plains.

But I’m looking at the verse Chris. We all are. Right? (making sure I included everyone)

The word fear isn’t anywhere in this verse. Is it?

Every face read the verse again.

Some raised eyebrows.
Some tilted heads and nodded.
Some pursed their lips.

Some looked at Chris waiting for a response, but none would come.

One tipped a glass to me and smiled.

Oh how we run from fights already won.

I do, too often.
Just not today.

There is more.

Please come back.

{ 6 comments… read them below or add one }

Debbie July 19, 2012 at 4:36 pm

Ooohhh! Thank you Craig! I wish I could’ve been there, cheering you on . .. quietly, so as not to mess things up. And by the way, I loved ” we are little mess factories”. God bless you and thank you for being there and bringing what happened there, here , to share with us!


Craig July 19, 2012 at 4:38 pm

Thank you Debbie. It’s just a conversation, but one with a timing and a flow…a moment I won’t forget. The year named “see” right? SO thank you as always – God bless!!


A. July 19, 2012 at 10:41 pm

Thank you, Craig, yes. And do write posts on the questions you thought were more valid criticisms of God…and what you learned in those regards!

I agree with Debbie on hearting ‘we are little mess factories’. :)


Craig July 20, 2012 at 2:37 pm

Your wish is my command A. but my head isn’t quite all the way back yet – so if I forget – remind me –

the short in the mean time:

God doesn’t need love, or praise. A perfect God has no needs at all. But he wants our love – as we would want it from children. And praise? Any good act is worthy of praise – God is ALWAYS good – and so – ALWAYS worthy of praise.

The garden is a Trinity thing – I’ll write more if you remind me. But think of the trinity as the sun, the light beam, and the point that the light beam illuninates – distinct though not DIFFERENT. The three are DISTINCT – the SOn, as a human, subjected himself fully to humanity – and so prayed to God his Father. The SOn is NOT the Father – I’ll write lots on the trinity someday.

as for all hearing the gospel – the pat answer is God is just – not to worry. I have a theory though involving Sheol (google it) and what Jesus did in the three days in the grave – that’s in 1 Peter I think – bottom line – I think everyone will get to hear and understand the gospel before judgement.

And “original sin” blah blah theology – it’s a mute point – sin is in the world, everyone has sinned – so who cares it our sin is “original” or not – one sin disqualifies – and we all have at least one sin.

gee – that could have been a post – still might be :) God bless :)


Martha Orlando July 20, 2012 at 12:14 pm

Your explanation to them was perfect! We are mess-up factories, aren’t we? God was certainly speaking through you, Craig, just like He always does in your posts. I will be looking forward to the next installment, as always!
Blessings to you!


Craig July 20, 2012 at 2:19 pm

I’m really glad God is responsible for what comes out of me – I’m a good debater – a good debater was needed here – but what he gave me was calm in the midst of fire, and a little insight, and some awfully well placed words. And I was in the middle of a little bit of a mental mess at the time – so God pretty much gets credit for everything. Thank you Martha, really, thank you.


Leave a Comment

{ 1 trackback }

Previous post:

Next post: